In this episode, Henri and Darcel explore relationships, discussing enmeshment, personal independence, societal pressures on women, and the transformative impact of conscious uncoupling. They emphasize self-love, growth, open communication, and the importance of modeling healthy dynamics for children, advocating for authenticity and trust in fostering fulfilling relationships.
In this episode, Henri and Darcel explore relationships, discussing enmeshment, personal independence, societal pressures on women, and the transformative impact of conscious uncoupling. They emphasize self-love, growth, open communication, and the importance of modeling healthy dynamics for children, advocating for authenticity and trust in fostering fulfilling relationships.
Takeaways
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About Darcel Being
Darcel Being, founder of the "SHE"-EO Arise Transformation Program™ and the thriving "Being Well Community" with over 11,000 members, is a Master Certified Mindset Coach, Certified Brain Trainer, and celebrated author of "My Curly, Coily Crown." With a degree in psychology and over a decade of experience in business and spiritual leadership, Darcel serves as a guiding light and soulful support for motivated entrepreneurs and creatives. Her approach integrates cognitive behavioral coaching principles, radical heart-centered compassion, and unapologetic passion to inspire intentional action and transformative growth, enabling individuals to navigate life transitions with faith and success.
Connect with Darcel
Website: https://darcelbeing.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/darcelbeing/
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Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:26 Maintaining Independence in a Relationship
07:36 The Role of Values in Relationships
10:02 Creating a List of Desired Qualities in a Partner
33:40 The Importance of Non-Negotiables
36:21 The Dangers of Trying to Change Your Partner
39:06 Clear Communication and Facing the Hard Conversations
43:24 Taking Back Your Power in the Relationship
45:04 Clarifying Values and Vision
53:15 The Role of Sexual Discipline
58:23 Having the Courage to Have the Hard Conversations
Henri (00:00.078)
Hey there, welcome to another episode of Living Beyond Expectations. In today's episode, I'm joined by Darcelle Beang and we talk about what happens when your relationship with yourself is a mess and the impacts that has on your relationships with others. Darcelle is the founder of She -E -O, Arise Transformation Program and the Being Well Community, which boasts over 11 ,000 members. As a master certified mindset coach and certified brain trainer, Darcelle shares powerful insights and personal stories on her relationship with her husband.
and how when she wasn't able to show up for herself and fulfill her own needs, that had a cascading effect not only on her relationship with her then husband, but also on her kids. Today's episode is pretty juicy, so stick around to the end. And as always, if you haven't already, please subscribe to Living Beyond Expectations wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Hey, Darcelle, welcome to the show. Thank you. So excited, Henri. So what do you think is one of the greatest failings in a relationship?
Ooh, so juicy. There's so many. But I think the greatest failing in most relationships, it really is this lack of independence. We hear so much about don't be codependent, all of these things, which is true. And also there is a lot of enmeshment and a lot of just really and truly forgetting of self. And I think that in relationships, there's this invitation.
to be more independent in order to create more cohesiveness in your relationship, which we don't really hear about too much. Yeah, I definitely agree. And just for the audience, can you walk through what enmeshment means? That sounds like a really juicy word. Enmeshment, right. It's a cool word. It's fun to say, enmeshment. Yeah, so enmeshment is really this, I like to imagine, I'm very into nature, so I like to imagine gardens.
And essentially when you're in a garden, you have these very clear boundaries for where one plot ends and another begins. So if you have carrots over here, you have cucumbers there, you have Brussels sprouts over there. And measurement is really when they are not clear boundaries and the carrots start growing in the Brussels sprouts and the Brussels sprouts start moving into the cucumbers. And what happens is essentially you have a lot of mixing and not in a healthy way. And a lot of times we see that
Henri (02:25.518)
in relationships and in my work, I see it so often, especially with women where they just fully lose themselves in marriage and motherhood. And it really does affect the relationship as a result of not having these clear boundaries and identity. Yeah. So what I imagined as you said that when it comes to human beings, it's almost like here's the man, the woman, the man, the man, the woman, the woman, whatever that combo looks like. And then suddenly their needs, their wants, their personality, all just kind of
come together and now instead of it being two individuals, it's this weird codependent enmeshed, right? Like they're all twined up in each other and that creates this level of unhealthiness because you lose your identity as you said. So I really love it. And so you talked about independence and it sounds like from the way that you were describing it, that independence is a really key factor in maintaining a healthy relationship. Is that fair?
Yes, 100%. That is right on, Henri. And again, we don't really learn that. We instead hear, especially again for women, depending on your culture, depending on your religious background, the community you're coming from, you hear a lot of, you know, when you get married, it's 100 % about your partner. And again, little girls are really taught to learn how to enmesh themselves with their parents, with their partner, with their pastor, whomever.
And as a result in relationships, it's this loss of self and identity, which in the end, it implodes. It always, not always, I shouldn't say that, but a lot of times it ends very poorly because then there's a lot of resentment and bitterness. And, you know, I resent my husband, I resent my kids, I don't know who I am. And in reality, it's simply because you were never taught how to hold a strong sense of identity and not to enmesh yourself.
and become like you said, this one, this one blob of all these different parts. Yeah. And so you have a waspend as I heard you refer to him, a waspend that you were able to, you know, if we want to get all life coach consciously uncouple with, right? And so what's an example or examples of, of moments that you discovered as you're saying, doing the work in your marriage that
Henri (04:49.55)
eventually led to it being something where you had to dissolve that marriage. Right. Yeah. Such a great question. So two things for me really gave me that knowing of the best way to love him, right? Would be to really let go. Number one, it was really getting clear on my core values. That is not something that I was ever taught in premarital counseling or
that's just not something you hear about. Like, okay, well, what are you all's values? And for me, it was the more I did personal development work, the more I got clear of my own values, I realized very quickly that our values were becoming more and more polarized to a degree that we could not reconcile them anymore. And again, I always share, he's a great man. There was no arguing all the time and butting heads. It was none of that. It was truly just me beginning to awake and realize.
He has his values and they are very much over here. I have my values and they are very much over here. So once I really got honest with myself, I recognized that in a marriage, your values have got to, to a certain degree, be aligned. Otherwise you're going to continue to grow very far apart. And even if they're not aligned in the same direction, a lot of clients that I coach, they have situations very similar, but for them,
they're both growing at similar rates towards the values that they are excited about. Even something like that can work. So for me, it was just, okay, our values are very different. And then also number two, I really recognized how much good girl programming I had brought into the marriage and that I was still living in. Even 14 years later, I was still looking and waiting for him to save me. And instead of me doing my work, I realized that a lot of what I was doing was blaming him.
and saying, well, you don't make me feel sexy and you don't make me feel like X, Y, Z. And in reality, no, I wasn't making me feel that way. But he was a convenient scapegoat to say, well, it's his fault. And once I realized that and I started doing that inner work, I knew very clearly, it took me a while to actually do it, but I knew very, very soon. I was like, okay, the best way to honor him and myself in this and to be an example for my kids about not settling, it's to actually consciously uncouple and center.
Henri (07:10.638)
the love and friendship we had in marriage center that even in the divorce process. And, you know, I'm very grateful and very thankful to him as well. It's been very peaceful. My kids are like none the wiser. They know we're divorced, but they're like, wait, are you guys really divorced? I mean, that would be awesome if that were, if that were the norm in many relationships. So there's a few things to unpack there. I'd love to hear some specific values.
Sure. That you had that he didn't or you know, you said he kind of was going here and you were going here. So what are some of those values that really started to create that friction and that divide? Yeah, absolutely. So for me, primarily, it was our I call it a soul print. So it was our soul print. And for me, blueprint for my soul, I believe that my soul print is to really change this world. And that involves a lot of service to others. That involves a lot of
I'm speaking a lot of sharing different things like that. And I have this huge vision where I'm like, I want to go to the grave completely empty. Like when it's all said and done, I want to be emptied out. And for me, that shows up as I am constantly moving and quantum leaping pretty quickly from one year to the next, just different versions of myself. And for him, we actually had this full conversation about, hey, what are your values? And let's see where they're headed.
And for him, it was more so he values safety primarily, which for him, it's not so much about this expansive, explosive, huge growth. It's more so I want to be safe and I want to be comfortable. Nothing wrong with that. It's just very polarized from what my value was of like, I want to be uncomfortable and I want to press past safety. Yeah, that was the main one that created a lot of friction. And another one, it was our religious beliefs.
We actually met in church and I've been a Christian all my life. And as I've grown, I still love God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, all the things. And also I am a firm believer in the power of the universe. I'm a firm believer in source and divine energy, all of that. And that was another value that was very much polarized because a lot of what I now believe he doesn't subscribe to and that's totally okay. And a lot of what he subscribes to, I no longer do. Yeah.
Henri (09:33.806)
And I think what's really interesting about that because I'm making an assumption here because conscious uncoupling was possible with you is that you can have a difference in values. And this goes not just romantic relationships or marriage, but this also goes for friendships, acquaintances, anything. You can have a difference in values and say, that's creating a really big rift between us, but you're not wrong and I'm not wrong. We just have different values and it's okay. Yes.
110 % to that. Let's get the offering plate passed around. Yes to that, Andre. That is so juicy. That's exactly right. I love that. I really hope that lands and resonates with your listeners because that is the key to having a successful relationship, whether you choose to repair what's happening or release. It's really understanding that you are not wrong. I am not wrong. We are just.
different and that gets to be okay. And with conscious uncoupling, the reason I chose that process is because we know we've heard about divorce and how nasty it can get for the kids. And because we have three kids together, beautiful kids, my goal with him, I said, Hey, we're always going to be a family, even if we're not a couple. That was my promise. We're always going to be a family and we're always going to center our children, even if we're not a couple. And I invited him into that and said, is that something that you would like to work towards with me?
And again, I'm very grateful for him because he was on board with that. And yeah, there were some rocky times in that because again, he doesn't necessarily come from that personal development world, but he was willing for the sake of the kids to allow me to just set up the container and he would be present in it. And it's truly worked out beautifully. Our kids are so happy and healthy, even in the dissolution of marriage.
Yeah, that's amazing. I love that so much. Thank you. I'm very grateful. Congratulations. Thank you. That's an achievement. It is. That takes work and consciousness and some courage because it sounds like it's not as simple as just being like, we're friends, right? We're just going to separate now. Not at all. It's not that simple. Yeah. And so there's a couple of things that I want to...
Henri (11:49.038)
kind of mesh. Now a couple of things that I want to mesh together, right? So you have daughters. I have a daughter and two sons. Yeah. And so part of that you've said a couple of times is about this impact on the kids, right? And you wanted to uncouple in a way that continued to maintain a family dynamic, right? But also there's, you mentioned earlier this kind of good girl programming. Right. And
All of that stuff, even if it's on your boys or especially on your daughter, that stuff even has an impact. Right. So talk a little bit about that and how that could show up or how maybe how it showed up for you specifically and then how you didn't want that to show up for your daughter. Because that's what I'm hearing is you didn't want that to be passed on. Right. I did not for my daughter or my sons, as you said. And it was very much recognizing where I was constantly looking for, again, my
was been to save me. So it was a lot of me kind of collapsing and using like coaching terms collapsing into my wounded feminine, which is that part that just is very codependent and very much to me consciousness. Why is this happening to me? Why isn't he doing this? Why isn't he doing that? A lot of blaming. And I recognize that my daughter was not seeing the highest example of me as a woman, also as me as a wife, right?
I recognize that, again, my husband and I, we have very polarized views. So for some things, he'd be like, well, this is something that I like. And I'd be like, OK, well, I like the exact opposite of that. And I noticed with my daughter, it would be a lot of, well, he didn't make a reservation and take me out. So I'm just going to sit at home and sulk and be upset instead of me saying, well, you know, guess what? I'm going to take myself out. And instead of her seeing that empowerment of, well, this is how
you choose to give yourself what you're desiring if you're in a relationship where it's not happening in that way, as opposed to arguing or saying, well, you know, take me out. What are you doing? And the more I recognize that she wasn't necessarily getting the best example of what a relationship that you choose looks like. Right. Because I wasn't actively choosing it. I was very passive. Yeah. I decided something has to change in order for her to see it. I've got to be it.
Henri (14:14.862)
Same thing for my boys. If I want them to move and operate a certain way, then they've got to see me in a certain way and also my husband. So I really and truly recognize that with Good Girl programming, I was stuck in it. It was the people pleasing. It was the perfectionism. It was the procrastination. It was the playing small. It was instead of speaking up sometimes, I'd just be like, well, I guess this is just how it is. Or I would be very explosive and.
very dysregulated and I recognize that if I don't want her to mirror that, I've got to be that change instead of telling my partner at the time, like, you need to make me feel better. You need to make me feel more confident. And now as a result of uncoupling, it is night and day. I constantly go out on solo dates. I'm constantly buying myself flowers and taking myself out. And she sees that. And Buddy's story, she plays Roblox every now and then.
and she created some little world and just yesterday she was like, mommy, look, I created my avatar and look what it's doing today. She's going out bike riding and then she went to the flower shop and got herself flowers and then she's gonna go out for dinner with herself and she's so excited and happy. And I'm like, my God, she's getting it that you can be happy with self and then from that place, I'm still teaching her love is beautiful. From that place, you can then choose as opposed to
Begging to be chosen. That is the difference that I did not have. Yeah. Preach on that. And I think what's really beautiful about what you said too is, and you know, I always look at things and try to see some of the gifts in the things that weren't necessarily ideal, right? So one of the, one of the gifts that I hear in that too is she's now also got a range, right? So she kind of saw.
mom and her victim. She saw mom in her martyrdom and in her like, hmm. And now she also gets to see her mom in her power, right? So now she also doesn't feel like she has to rigidly, rigidly? Stick into just that. She gets to choose where she wants to go and what feels great to her. And similarly for your boys, they also get to see what it's like to have a healthier dynamic between a mother and a father.
Henri (16:33.294)
Right. And, and how they should show up and also make the choices of like, do I want to show up like that too? And even as you elevate, and of course you said your husband is going in a separate direction in that sense. It still sounds like there's some healthier level of ways of being for both of you that are being modeled to your kids. 100 % on re because, again, that's part of love recognizing that I've got to love you enough to let you go.
And also with my husband, obviously he's not here to come on in to speak to it, but a special guest of what's super exciting is that we are having more conversations with more depth than we have in 14 years. We're having these beautiful conversations about becoming and about the process and what that looks like and what that feels like. And something for him that's interesting is that again, because I'm no longer
pulling on him from my wounded feminine of save me, save me, save me, fix me, make me feel better, make me feel loved, make me feel chosen, make me feel worthy. He is now able to shift more so into his own healthy masculine instead of being stuck in this nice guy, right? You have the good girl and the nice guy. And instead of him being stuck there, he's now doing all of these beautiful things for himself that he was not doing before as a result of probably feeling the pressure and tension of.
me constantly pulling on him and saying, I need, I need, I need, I need, I need, right? And it's been so beautiful to also see that dynamic unfold as friends where it's like, wow, you know, this is really beautiful in very painful ways. But to see, you know, 14 years of life with someone's a long time, but to see him also beginning to grow and do his own thing in his own way without me either being in my wounded feminine or being the mother.
Right. That mothering energy. I'm going to tell you what you need to do. It's very nice to see him coming into his own, so to speak, and witnessing my children see that new dynamic as well. And again, above all, they've been centered in this. And I really couldn't ask for a better unfolding. And, you know, was that if you watch this, shout out to you because I couldn't be doing this. Honestly, it wouldn't be so peaceful for my children if I did not have him in partnership, even
Henri (18:57.358)
post -marriage, so I really do appreciate him and how he is still making this way easier than a lot of people have had it. And then what I imagine it would be, it's so much easier and I appreciate that. It's hard too and sometimes, but it's very peaceful and that couldn't be without his support also. Yeah, I think there are a few things to unpack there. So it's like,
the more you expand and the more you create the invitation for yourself, it's like you're giving permission for him. Like you're giving space for him. Right. Because it's what I also heard maybe in some of the like not as positive reactions to that and correct me if I'm, I'm over assuming, but maybe there could have been something in there. Like, why couldn't you have been this during? I love that. Right. Is that something that came up for you? I love that question because
Absolutely, right? That is 100%. And check this out, Henri, it goes both ways. I have been, we've had this conversation. That is the biggest blessing of choosing to know when to let go because most people are stuck even right now and like, should I say or should I go? And that's a lot of my clients are in that gridlock. Well, I'm not happy, but I don't know how to leave, but I don't want to leave, but I do. And all of that energy, wavering energy, one foot on the gas, one foot on the brake.
Once you make the decision and commit to it, there's so much more possibility that opens up. So yes, we've had, again, deeper conversations. There's been more honesty because there's not that pressure from marriage. And yes, there are 100 % moments where in the very beginning, my goodness, I would be so angry. I would be grieving so much, crying, crying, doing my anger releases, beating stuff up, crying outside. And I would just keep saying, I'd be like, why couldn't you do this?
in our marriage and the very same thing, every relationship is just a reflection of my relationship with myself. The question always came back to me. Why couldn't I do this for myself when I was still married? Maybe the marriage wouldn't have had to be consciously uncoupled. Who's to know? But what I do know, all the ways I was not choosing myself led to the marriage needing to be completed and divorce ensuing.
Henri (21:15.95)
And again, I really do look sometimes and I had a lot of regret in the beginning towards myself where I said, well, why couldn't I have dated myself in the beginning? Maybe I wouldn't have had so much pressure on him to take me on dates. Why couldn't I have chosen myself like this in the beginning? But we know, hindsight is 20 -20. It's easy to look back now and be like, I should have meditated for the answer. But like, hello, when you're in it for 14 years, you want what you want. So yes, and also, and there's a, I was just gonna say there's a really
There's a saying that I have that I made up a while back that usually people are like, what the fuck are you saying? But I'll try it here because maybe it'll land. Maybe it'll land with who's listening and tuned in right now. But it feels very fitting. It's if you could have, you would have. But because you didn't, you couldn't have.
And what that really just says is like, if you had all the tools and all the mindsets and the emotional regulation, the nervous system regulation, and you had all the external factors from your husband and his emotional regulation and all that stuff, if all the things were there and the soup was perfect, if the cake was perfectly everything, you would have been this person, right? You couldn't have been that person because if you could have been, you would have been. Yeah, I think that's very profound.
in that it does alleviate the shame and the guilt cycle of like, I should have done better and I really should have done this sooner. You're totally right. The version of me that I was 14 years ago, 10 years ago, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, that version, she could not do what this current version is doing because that personality did not live in this personal reality. It's as simple as that. And she could not be and do what I am currently doing, right? I literally had to undergo
a complete melting down of that version. And I became this version in order to survive the grief and the heartache and the, this is not what I imagined for us. This is not what I pictured 14 years ago. And then looking at my kids, I thought we grow old together and watch our grandkids. This is not what I wanted. And also this is what I've chosen and therein lies the empowerment piece. I love what you said. That's very profound. Yeah. Thanks. And the responsibility and it's also like you,
Henri (23:35.886)
Oftentimes we look back at marriages, at situations, at past events, all the things, and we look at it through the lens of today's eyes. And when we do that, of course there's going to be grief there because we're no longer that person. But it's like in the moment, you didn't feel grief for that. Absolutely. Right. You're looking back with grief, with new knowledge and new whatever. But at some point you also just have to start looking in the now and also start looking forward to
Allow yourself to emerge. It's like if you're emerging into this new person and you've got one foot or, you know, or, or you're like walking kind of weirdly sideways and you're looking in the front and looking in the back and you just keep kind of bouncing your eyes back and forth. It's like, you're going to run into a fucking tree. You're going to run into a tree because you ain't looking where you're going. Right. So I love that. Yes, you can look back and you can grieve all the things that never were. And.
it's time to emerge and embrace and love up on this new version of yourself. And because as we discussed, the more you've done that for yourself, the more that there's a space for your husband, the more that your kid is playing a game and suddenly like, I'm going on a date with myself and it's amazing. And I'm so excited and you've created all that space. So I just want to say, you know, bravo to you. Congratulations. That's amazing. I received that. I received that wholeheartedly, Henri. And I love what you said.
the bottom line with also, yes, grieving that version and also use such a beautiful, powerful word about embracing this new version, because were it not for this new version, there is so much that I am now experiencing that I would never have experienced had I have stayed in that old paradigm. And now self -deeds. I was not doing that before. Physical fitness. I, my God, like the most I was doing was like chasing my kids.
and picking up some chips. Which is a lot for a lot of people. Yeah, like that's what I was doing, some veggie corn dogs. Like what? It was all that. And now I'm like, my goodness, personal training and riding my bike and walking, all these things that I was not doing before because I just was, you know, pouting and sulking. And now I'm doing those things. And it's like, wow, I would not have gotten to experience this version of myself had it have not been for.
Henri (26:00.878)
what I went through. So yeah, I'm very grateful to be here and I'm so excited because I know this is just like the beginning. It's only it's truly, Henri, it's only gotten better and better even and the best part to me is also watching him thrive. That has been such a blessing to me to know that, wow, two people can choose and also be chosen by themselves. Like that is so beautiful and we don't have to be enemies and
argue because we're not married. Well, no life still gets to be beautiful. We're not a couple, but we'll always be a family. I think that's the biggest blessing of all. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Amen to that. And, and you know, God willing you have over 30 years to continue to explore this, this new and continuously evolving version of you. And that's just, I always love to think about that. Like, you know, I'm 38 almost and
I think about them like, Whoa, like I have a solid, probably at least 40 more years, at least like more than 40 years. Like, Whoa, like what I just did, I have also that amount of time to, and it just, to think about that is just so daunting, but also very exciting. And yeah, I love it. So I want to shift gears a little bit. I was on Tik Tok this morning and
this, this TikToker came up and was talking about your calling in your dream person. And one of the things that I started to think about is like, I've done this exercise myself, right? You do the list, you list all the attributes and all the things that your, your dream ideal person will, will, will bring to the table. And I wonder if that dehumanizes people a little bit. I wonder if that creates.
a rigid sense of expectations of like, they must meet these different criteria. No lie. My friends and including myself, that list is like law. I'm talking like, you know, cause it's all the law of manifestation get really specific. It's like, okay, well I've now created a whole human being almost at the cellular level. And at what point does that become too rigid? So when they show up and they have
Henri (28:23.022)
90 % of my 2000 bullet point list that the other 10 % is like, no, can't do that. What do you think about that? I think that is so juicy and I love that question. me personally, I am of the mindset, the longer the list, the better. That is why, simply because I believe that if you yourself, right, if you have receipts for you yourself being all 2000 of those things,
you have every right to call it in. That is like, you answered, you answered my follow -up perfectly without even having to ask it. I love it. Bottom line, like if you are all 2000 of those things as rigid as it is, okay, awesome. If you have those qualities, you, you have the right to call it in. But again, if you're like, I want someone physically fit, but you're, you know, couch, what does it couch potato? Then it's like, well, that's not an alignment energetically.
But I also believe, Henri, it's all about standards. I think that not enough people make lists of what they actually desire because they're afraid or they don't think they're worthy of it or, well, how am I going to find someone? This is too rigid. But here's the bottom line. There are over eight billion people in the world. What? Eight billion, regardless of what people believe in God, Buddha, Krishna, whomever. Like, I say God, God divinely designed eight billion people. And you're telling me
that you think you're not gonna be able to find the person obsessed with like Swedish fish and relish and mustard, like what people are into. I'm hoping those are not all in combination. All in combination. There's somebody, there's somebody. Yum. There's someone. It's like, just go on TikTok. There are insane amounts of people who have these weird random niches. And there's someone who's like, my God, I love this. And they have 8 million people following them, right?
You can find your tribe and your person and all it really takes is being an energetic match. So I love the list. I am a huge fan of it. And I see where you're coming from about, well, it can be very like, you know, you're putting yourself in a box. But again, I think it's better than the opposite of, I have no list and whatever comes, comes. That's how people end up not really choosing, but just stressing about being chosen, especially, especially when.
Henri (30:50.862)
Well, I love that you immediately went again, you went to the follow -up question. And so I think that it does create a distinction between what I'm talking about and what you're talking about, right? Cause you're, you're saying I am of this caliber quality being vibration, whatever you want to call it. I am of this and therefore I'm calling in my energetic match. Right? I think that sometimes we get into a trap where we call in where we're vibing here and we call in someone who's below.
that energetic match that just isn't at that level, or we call in someone above to then use them to raise our vibration. And I think in both cases, it creates unhealthy relationships, right? I think that you can create a measurement in both directions. And then it kind of also leads into this idea of, is there room for flexibility?
Is there a room when, you know, you know, you start broad, I want someone who's kind, someone who loves pets, someone who, you know, when you keep, you go down that list and you get narrower and narrower, is there a room for them to be imperfect in all of that? Right. Because I think sometimes, and this is also where that question came from is sometimes I think that there's this level of expectation that they must be that thing that I've listed out 100 % of the time, forgetting that
I'm not even that thing 100 % of the time. Yeah, I totally agree with that. There gets to be that flexibility knowing that you are human and they are human 100 % because there are days I don't want to go to the gym. There are days I don't want to. I'm a vegetarian for seven years now, eight, almost eight years. And it's like, there are days that I don't want to eat my salad and celery and all these things. So yeah, we get to also have compassion for the humanity.
of the person and the experience. But as a rule of thumb, I think it's beautiful to have that structure to say, well, this is what I'm desiring. And also our expectation does create our experience. So I'm a firm believer that the more the merrier, the more lists and standards and expectation you have, the merrier as long as you yourself can fill it up. And if you can have at it.
Henri (33:10.222)
beautiful and also have grace for the humanity of the person because no one's going to be at a hundred percent all the time. That's, you know, not possible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's interesting there, and I want to also create this distinction as I do think in that list. So say, you know, for joking sake, but also maybe serious that 2000 bullet point list, right? I'm a, I'm sure that there are some things on that list that are, you know, and we say in the, in the coaching world, the non -negotiables.
in that there are items that are like, I will not be with someone who doesn't like animals or who isn't compassionate or who isn't kind or whatever that list looks like, right? Or doesn't value this. Because we talked about values earlier and how those can create really big canyons between a couple if they're too far off.
those certain things and if you can be within those and you have those non -negotiables, then I think maybe that naturally creates some of the flexibility on the other, you know, 1900 things of your 2000 point list. I love that, Andree. I think that's point on where you get to even divide it up. Like you just shared your non -negotiables and making it very clear and the rest is like, okay, it's a cherry on top. Because ultimately,
those non -negotiables, if you settle on those, those are the things that will stagnate your relationship. Those are the things that will sever the relationship. Those are the things that will kill the relationship, the non -negotiables. And if you say, well, you know, like you said, I do like pets, but you know, this person, it's okay, we'll just see. Maybe I'll change them down the line. That is what I hear. You would believe, but.
So many clients, especially women, come in with that, I'm gonna change him, I'm gonna change him. And it's like, first of all, that is not fair to the person that you're going to go into it changing them because then that's not true love. You don't really love the person, you love the idea of loving them. And also, that is so much work. It puts you in the drama triangle, right, from the coaching world where now you're the hero and they're the victim. And more than likely, you're acting out a pattern of constantly trying to save people.
Henri (35:33.198)
And I think those non -negotiables though, those are vital to be clear on what are the things that have to be in the relationship in order for it to be a yes, a full -bodied yes for you. And the more clear you are on that, the more successful your relationship can be from both parties also.
Yeah. And on the kind of the hero thing or the victim thing or this idea that we can change our partner, right? We can, we can mold them, you know, they're, you're talking to your, to your, to your friends and you're like, they're a little rough in this area, but I think I can mold them. I think that that is such bullshit and an instant, instant set up for failure.
when you are looking, it's like you're looking at someone immediately already seeing and nitpicking all their imperfections. And you're already thinking and setting yourself up to be, I'm above them. I'm gonna mold them to bring them up to my level. And it's like, if you're bringing that energy into a relationship, I don't feel like that energy is good. And I don't think that that relationship is going to work because if they aren't able to be molded or maybe,
They don't want to be molded because they want to be themselves. And that's not to say that they might not want to grow and expand as themselves, but like not at your contrived ideal version of me. I actually heard a Tik Tok yesterday that was like, holy mind blow is when you see the potential of somebody, you're not seeing the potential of them. You're seeing what you would do in their position. So juicy. You're seeing how you would react. And I,
That just struck me. I was like, I've never heard somebody say it like that, but it's so true. You're like, based on what I understand of their life and the way that they are, if this opportunity came in their lap, then this would be the, the, the promise and the projection of what they could be in their potential. And it has, it has nothing about them. So that's, yeah, I'd love to hear more about what you think about when you try to mold someone to be the perfect partner for you because
Henri (37:48.59)
they weren't perfect to begin with. Yeah, I love that, Henri, like, just let that marinate. that's so good. That's so juicy. And it's exactly what you said. It's really and truly, it is an act of manipulation and selfishness, very strong words. And just like people pleasing, right? People pleasing is literally the highest form of manipulation because you're trying to get someone to react to you a certain way.
based upon how you are acting. So you're gonna say yes when you really mean no, and you're gonna say, yeah, it's okay and not have boundaries because you want them to like you. That's manipulating them as opposed to just letting them react towards you how they desire. And I love what you said. It 100 % is very contrived where you have an idea of how they should be. And then you spend your time and your energy.
really trying to press them into that mold. And the longer you do that, it's truly the more you take away from even having an authentic relationship because you're not showing up authentically if you're trying to make them be something. So therefore, authenticity cannot thrive. And on a personal note, that was really and truly the number one, I would say, wedge in our relationship. It was very much me spending the majority of time.
telling him what I wanted him to be and how I wanted him to act and what I needed him to do. And again, this was because I was in my victimhood and I was telling him, well, you're not doing this. So this is why I'm doing that, right? A lot of that kind of energy instead of just saying, well, I'm choosing to do this. It has nothing to do with you. This is what I'm choosing, right? But I had a story, well, it's because he's not doing this. And now I'm so sad. And I will tell you, I will share this with you.
There was a conversation we had right before the divorce, I would say one month before I actually filed the divorce. And it was really charged, really intense because I knew I'm about to pull the trigger on this and do the thing. And I was asking him, like, do you think there is any way I wanted him to like go to therapy and do communication? All of these things that, again, he was not choosing. I was trying to choose it for him. And I was like, you know, I just really need you to be able to communicate better.
Henri (40:03.278)
as opposed to looking at, well, where am I not showing up in clear communication, right, with myself? And we had this conversation and I will never forget, right, what actually led me to sign the papers, file the papers, was he looked at me and was like, you know, bottom line, I really like who I am. I really, I really like who I am and I like how I am and I don't want to change. And that, that changed everything for me because if I truly love the person,
How can I be asking them to change when they're clearly stating their desire of I don't want to change? So bottom line, I had to decide. I believe it's Viola Davis perhaps or Lisa Nichols, someone or Iyanla Vizant. Someone said, we don't get to choose how people love us. We just get to choose whether or not we are going to accept it. So he had made it plain, this is how I love. I had decided it wasn't acceptable because his love language was.
Jamaican dollar mine was Chinese yen. It did not convert Yeah And as a result no matter how many dollars he gave I didn't receive it because that wasn't the way that I received love that was not my love language and it came to the bottom line well either I can keep trying to make him go convert the currency and I can keep complaining or I can keep telling him he's not good enough saying that's not how I receive love and it's not what I wanted I just got to the point where I was like, you know what I can also
choose to remove myself from this. If I'm not receiving love in a way that I need to. And we did marriage therapy before, we did counseling, we've had a lot of conversations and fundamentally, it's just who he was and also it's who I was. It's not all him, right? I have never in any conversation been like, it's his fault, not at all. It takes two people. And bottom line, you and I, you, I, whoever is listening, we get to really decide.
the way this person loves, can I accept it? If the answer is no, instead of trying to change them, you have a decision to make. Either accept how they do it or shift. It's up to you. Yeah. One of the beautiful things that one of my close friends in his evolution has come to is like, I'm not going to change my friends. They are who they are. And if it gets to a point where it's not okay, then we figure that out then.
Henri (42:27.054)
And I just think that that's a really great way to live. But also in reference to everything that we've discussed so far, it's almost like if you're trying to change him, obviously this is 14 years ago. I'm assuming this is before you really got deep into the work. But it's like if you're trying to change him, it's because you didn't have your list. Because you didn't have your non -negotiables. And for all these people that get into a relationship and suddenly, you know, they're three months in, they're like, well, there's these five things that I would change.
you know, I can see the potential. It's like, again, you're not seeing the potential. You're seeing something that's completely make believe because there's nothing telling you that that's actually even possible. And the reason why you have those five things that aren't working is because clearly those five things are non -negotiables for you, but you didn't know it. And now you're just projecting those on onto that person. And it's not really fair because I showed up as me, you showed up as you. And it was fine until it wasn't.
But I didn't show up. And of course, it's different if you both show up with your masks on. And we can totally get into that if you want to of what happens when you come to a relationship projecting what you want to be versus what you currently are. We're almost like you're faking the energetic match that you're vibing on, but you're not really that. Actually, let's dive into that. So we talked a lot about vibration. And if you have your list, are you that list?
Right? So vibing at an energetic match. And I think, especially as we talk, most of this podcast is about where we are coming from, the relationship that we have with ourself, how we are evolving and how we are being.
I think sometimes people fake, right? They fake it till you make it, or they project this level of what they aspire to be, but they haven't done all of the work to really get to that place of that. And then once they're in that relationship, they have to uphold that mask in perpetuity, because otherwise that person could one day see the mask off and be like, whoa, like I didn't, that.
Henri (44:34.702)
Who are you? I don't know who you are. I only know this person. Like, can you put that mask back on? What do you think about that? I think that's spot on. It's that a lot of times we are not honest with ourselves and therefore we come into relationships not being honest with each other. And also there are those of us who truly did not know ourselves, right? We didn't do the work, which begs the question, well, should I be entering into a relationship if I have not done any level of personal development work?
I'm a firm believer that we are never done healing. So I have clients who are like, yes, they're in my world. They've been coaching with me for two, three years and they're, yeah, but I don't feel ready for a partner yet because I'm still working through some things. For people like that, I always encourage, listen, you can show up as your fully authentic self who is in the process of healing and still find someone, right? Still attract someone, still call in someone who's on a similar journey. And also,
There are certain levels of you that cannot be unlocked unless you are in relationship. We are literally wired to be in relationship with others from a nervous system perspective. And until you are in a relationship, there are certain wounds that cannot be triggered when it's just you and you. You've got to have someone else to trigger that. wow. Hmm. That's very interesting. I noticed that there's this codependency thing. wow. That's very interesting. I noticed there's an avoidant thing when the intimacy starts increasing.
you're not going to understand or see those wounds until you are triggered by someone in relationship. So I am a firm believer in really doing some personal development work before you enter into a relationship, but it doesn't take five years, seven years. It can be a year, it can be months. And you can feel like, you know what, I am ready to start interacting with someone as long as you're honest. Also to what you just said about wearing the mask, I think, yes, there are people who come in and they're like, yes.
I'm Joseph Spenza, Greg Braden, I've done all the things, Bruce Lipton, I meditate, I'm levitating. And also, I am a huge, huge supporter of you get to prove the Spirit or test the Spirit, right? There's a scripture I live by and it says, you will know the tree by its fruit. You'll know what kind of tree it is if you just simply look at the fruit. And a lot of times, even with people who are wearing masks, what happens is...
Henri (46:59.47)
There's always, there are always cracks. There are always these moments where you're like, you know, that doesn't really align with what this person's showing me, but what then happens, we make excuses. We settle because we don't want to be alone because we don't want to upset our family or the church or our community. And I would say that even in my relationship and I've talked to my husband also, and he's agreed that there were all of these red flags for both of us, right?
where it was kind of like, I really do like a more down to earth woman. I am not like low energy. Let's use that word. He likes a more low energy. I am not low energy. Like I am very high energy. I am very fun and funky and eccentric, spontaneous. That's not what he's into. And that's okay. As for me, I like a man who is very much like alive and like, yes, let's go to the festival. Let's do the things. Woo. He is not like that. He's very.
low energy, down to earth, very monotone and calm. And once upon a time, I loved that. I needed that, right? And also it got to the place where I was like, you know, that was never really like my desire. And the same for him. He never really desired like a woman who's like, glasses, hair, one way, crazy shirt, patterns. He was like, So yeah, I think that.
we get to really get clear on, listen to our intuition bottom line, because even if someone is faking and wearing a mask, energy doesn't lie. So they can't fake their energetic signature. You can't fake frequency, but we can cover it up with stories and projections and excuses. yeah, I think that's huge. Yeah. And something that as you kept speaking,
that kept coming up for me, you know, this concept, it's like, hire slow, fire fast. Right. And of course that's in your job and that's in, you know, as a business owner and whatever, it's a philosophy there, but I wonder how that can apply to relationships, right? And not to say that you just kind of flip into about relationships and don't really.
Henri (49:17.006)
you know, care about them, right? And it gets also more complicated when you're in marriage. But I just, I wonder, especially if you're not in a really serious relationship.
Where's the point where you're like, okay, for the first six months of our relationship, I needed the calm, monotone, chill dude. I needed that for whatever reason. And then you suddenly realize about, long term, that isn't going to work. Right? At what point do you say, is this their normal or is there a way that we can...
grow together or right without saying I'm going to change you to make you this person, but maybe I'm going to request this or maybe I'm going to somehow figure that out. At what point do you do that or say it's clear that this is just not it and you break up? I love that question. I would say that you don't even need six months.
really and truly it's if we're I love your analogy of higher slow fire fast I think that's so helpful in every area of life so I love that so much I have to write that down I think that you like similarly to a job on the job you've got 90 days you have a 90 day probationary period 90 day fiance to really be like what are this what's the vision here what are the values
How is this person showing up on a job? They don't give you six months because they have studied think about these corporations with million -dollar billion -dollar budgets in Organizational psychology they've studied the human brain They study human psychology and they know in 90 days you have a crystal clear read on a Person and their value system and what they're bringing to the table or what they're not bringing. So in actuality
Henri (51:18.638)
If we give it 90 days, I think that we can see very clearly. I could see very clearly. 90 days, he could see very clearly. But we push through for all these reasons, things like that. And I think it's, what if we treated relationships 100 % with that saying, hire slow and fire fast? I think that more people would be successful. I think more marriages would be successful. And two things I want to actually bring to the space. Number one, there's a lot around, again, I talk a lot about
religion because a lot of my clients are Christian women or women who come from the church or men who come from that church background and in the Christian world we are taught things like well number one there's no shacking up before marriage there's no living together before marriage that in and of itself I'm not saying that that's entirely terrible but what I am saying is that a lot of things don't come out until you live with someone a lot of things you don't know until you live with a person so in some ways
I really wonder about that. Yeah, that was just the next part. I was going to bring it here and just say, I was like, I don't know, can I say that here? But that's the next part where it's like, then you bring in the sexual aspect where a lot of times either, again, if you're from the church, we're told you don't have sex before marriage. And then when you do get married, there's all these incompatibilities. Am I saying to have sex before marriage? Do what you do. Do what feels right for you. Because in the same vein, Henri, there are people.
who need to practice, who get to practice more sexual discipline. We know that when you have sex, oxytocin is released. It is the bonding chemical. So a lot of women are having sex and again, no shame to anybody, do what you do. But if we look at the studies, the minute you are having sex, you are then clouding your judgment to choose from a place of empowerment. Because once dopamine gets on board, it's like smoking crack or snorting cocaine, whatever you're doing.
Once you do that, you're not going to be able to make the best choice for a partner because you are crowded, right? Dopamine literally hijacks the brain. So all of a sudden this guy that you're like, yeah, he's not really my type. OK, one night later, well, you know. But he lays it down. I could see he lays it down. So I'm like, I could see how it could work. We don't talk about that enough because then people feel, you're judging me.
Henri (53:43.95)
No one's judging you do and do what you do and also if what is it the things like if you spot it you got it If you feel triggered there is something for you if you're listening to this and you're judging me and okay Well, I'm not and also Give me a call because if you're triggered by it, there's something in it for you to heal sexual discipline is 100 % a Game -changer if you want to feel
into the choice you're making outside of the chemical concoction that is brought on by sex. Yeah. Amen to that. And I, you know, and I do think that there's also a differentiator between intimacy, relationship and sex. So, you know, so we've talked about like, I'm not trying to change you. I'm not trying to make you evolve in a way that you're not meant to evolve, right? I can ask that of you and you can say no.
Like your husband did. I'm actually really good with who I am. So I'm not doing anything that you, I'm not doing none of that. However, sex is trainable. I fundamentally agree. Of course, there are some people who just, they don't get it. And that's, that's their journey. Not mine. For the, for the audience. That is not my journey. I know what I'm doing. Virgo power here. We, we learn and iterate very quickly, but right. Like sex is trainable. Right. So like in that area, you can.
Right? If they check all the other boxes and you're non -negotiables, but maybe they're lousy, maybe there's all kinds of wounding there. But that I think is one of the areas where like you can, but you're right. The minute you introduce that and which is also why there are studies that show and a lot of, a lot more people are leaning into this of like, don't have sex with them until at least three dates or like hold off as long as you can. Because the minute you do that, there's, you know, there's issues with respect. There's intimacy issues.
There's suddenly the dopamine thing that clouds whether or not they're the person for you. And I just so, I think that that's such a powerful thing and it is not talked about enough. I loved how you said sexual discipline because I think it's so true. And if we all lived more consciously around this stuff and it's a lot of fucking work, I'm just going to throw that out there. It is a lot of work to
Henri (56:00.654)
live consciously because we've been taught for so long to live unconsciously for so long, for at least the last hundred years, the more and more we've separated ourselves from our internal worlds. And it's really hard. It's, it's, I mean, for me, and I'm in this work, some days it's like, this is so exhausting. Like, can I just show up and be messy and not be evolved and say the wrong thing and be a dick? Like, can I just show up and do all of that?
Right. And yeah, of course the answer is yes. But so I understand. And you know, really for the, for those listening, yeah, it's a lot of work, but the great thing about the human brain, especially when we talk about the 90 day job interview and the 90 day relationship interview is that is actually also part of human psychology in the brain is that we develop things so rapidly because this body, this brain is such a fucking bad ass supercomputer that we can
Do the hard things that feel hard in the beginning, but the minute we keep doing it over and over again, it becomes easy because that's where our brain wires itself. Right? So yeah, it's hard. It's only hard in the beginning. I promise you. And the more that everybody could be good with that difficulty with that, okay, there's like 20 things that I need to really be focusing on here. And we'll start with one, then add the second one when you're getting in the swing of one and keep going and so on and so forth.
But the more you do it, suddenly those 20 things are now just your life. You are just it. You are just communicative, boundary set. You are just, you know, not expecting your partner to change, but you're coming together and having real deep conversations around like, this isn't working for me. What do you think? Right. And that just becomes you. You just are that evolved great in relationships thing and not always great, but great growing, whatever, whatever. so I think that that's.
I think that's a great place to end is like, it will become easier and it is hard to start. And it's all in the mindset, a hundred percent. And to close with at the end of the day for anybody who is like wondering, my goodness, what do I do in the relationship? One of the best things you can ever do is similar to this podcast episode. It's have the hard conversation, right? Whatever you don't feel and what if not facing it, you can't have freedom from it.
Henri (58:23.086)
So a lot of times in relationships, the reason these things persist and the relationship breaks down, it's a refusal to communicate about the hard things, right? If I could go back and do anything differently, that is it. What you turn and face will disappear 100%. If I could do anything over, it would be, I wish slash would have had more of these hard conversations in the beginning, as opposed to thinking, well,
I'm supposed to be the good Christian wife and I'm supposed to be the good girl who's quiet and just, you know, push my knees to the side. I wish I would have had really hard conversations in year one as opposed to 14 down the line, three kids in. Now we have the conversations, right? Could have been a very different story, whether we stayed together in a different way or whether we called it at a year. I don't know. But for anyone who is wondering bottom line, have the hard conversations and get
clear on what are your values and also is this relationship salvageable? You won't know until you start talking about what's actually happening and what's present for you. You might be able to save it. There's always, I believe there's always space and time for a marriage to be saved. And again, or at least have information that, you know, it's not awesome. Now we can be empowered and uncouple that way. Yeah. Yeah. And, and
to really round it out with something very down to earth. What's kind of one or two questions that someone can ask themselves? Like, right, if somebody listening to this podcast and they've, they're glorious and they've made it all the way to the end here. What are one or two questions that they can ask to start this process? Right, if they're like, hmm, there was a lot of things said here that I think I need to explore. What could, what questions?
could be really helpful for them. Yeah, I would start with if you are in a relationship where your partner is communicative and you all are in a place where you can sit down over a nice dinner, get a babysitter, just you and him or them and have the conversation, number one, it's to really get clear on what are the values, right? What are the top four most important things for you in your life right now? What are the top four most important things for them? And get clear on what's actually happening because our values, your values are constantly driving you.
Henri (01:00:47.214)
towards them. So get clear on that because that might be a huge part of why you all are disconnected. Get clear on that. Yeah. And if you value freedom, for example, if you value freedom and your partner is constantly, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? What are you doing? You're not going to feel very free, right? So being able to talk about that as a value, like I value my freedom. And when you do this, this is how it makes me feel. That is a really great way to just start.
opening up the dialogue, open up the floor, because you can do a lot from just that question. Just understanding what I value today or what I value in this moment then triggers all this other stuff. I love that, absolutely. And number two, it's to really get clear for yourself, right? This is not a, I need to ask my partner. No, no, no, this is just for you. Where in the relationship have I been giving away my power? A lot of times I see it in women.
in the languaging, right? Even the you make me feel for women, that is a very disempowering statement because all of a sudden, well, he has all the power and I have none because he makes me feel so unsexy. He makes me so angry. What happens if you actually turn that statement into I choose to feel now you have a choice in calling back your power. He makes me feel unattractive. Well, no, I choose to feel unattractive because he doesn't take me on dates.
Awesome. Now we have more information to say, hey, dating and intimacy, that's a value for me. So I love that. It's asking yourself, where are you outsourcing, outsourcing that power to something else or someone else? And then last but not least, it's to really get clear on the vision, right? You can do this together again. What is the vision for your relationship? You're not just in it just to be right for some good sex and some good times.
What? I don't know. You might be. I don't know. Maybe. We are. We are little freak leaks. So you get. Yeah, we will be. You get to really get clear. You're so funny. You get to really get clear on what is the vision for the marriage and also for yourself. Get clear on a vision, because if you have a vision, if your why is strong enough.
Henri (01:03:10.414)
I live by this, if you believe in your why, the how will find you. If you all believe in a why, if your why is to build an empire together, to raise children who are overflowing in abundance and generational wealth, the how will find you. You'll meet someone at Starbucks who's like, hey, by the way, I am a marriage therapist and I'm having a program. You'll find the how, but you've got to lock into your vision separately and collectively.
Those are the three steps I would say are a great place to get started. I really love that. And I appreciate you giving kind of that bonus third one, because I think each one of those individually can create so much change, but also collectively, they just like those three things are really powerful. So thank you for that. And if people want to work with you, how can people find you? Find me on Instagram first and foremost at Darcel being that is the best place where I show up.
do lives, all the things, and also darksalebeing .com. If you want to work with me, I have so many awesome programs, classes, all the things. And if you are especially a couple who's right in a space of, I don't know, should I stay, should I go? I have a powerful, potent program called Last Chance at Forever, and it is a three -day intensive marriage.
challenge where we go so deep into everything we talked about today, which is your vision, which is the values. We look at the blockages. Where are you outsourcing your power? Both of you all, not just one person. And we go really deep into repair or release. Either way, if you do decide at the end of the three days you have more information, some couples get marriage therapy. Awesome. Some couples say, you know what, I think separation is best, but it's done in a way where the children don't suffer.
Like that to me is paramount. So Last Chance at Forever, it is a beautiful program. I've had couples save their marriage in it. And I've had some who said, you know, the best decision is to actually release with love. So that you can shoot me a DM on Instagram and just say ready or love. And I would love to hop on a call with you all and talk about what's possible for you. Yeah, thank you, Henri.
Henri (01:05:23.886)
So thank you so much for being here. Of course, I will drop all of that in the show notes so everybody can find you. And if they need to save their marriage or end their marriage, maybe they can connect to you there as well. So I will put all that in the show notes. This has been amazing. We have really run quite a wide gamut of topics when it comes to relationships in particular, self -relation and how that then manifests itself in a relationship.
I can't wait to have you back on because I'm sure that there's more things that we can talk about. So thank you, Henri, and I would love to come back. And thank you to the listeners. Yes, thank you so much. And for everybody else, you're listening to Living Beyond Expectations, and I'll see you next time.